2015 Honda Fit - Playstation Version

"Joe6pack" (joe6pack) 03/30/2015 at 21:10 • Filed to: None

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Recently, someone posted a Youtube video of someone testing out a 2015 Honda Fit. It looked like a lot of fun and I am a fan of small cars with manual transmissions. So, today at lunch, I decided to investigate further by reading up on the Fit online. Car and Driver had nice write up and they even had the fit at the top of the segment ahead of the Ford Fiesta and the Mazda 2.

But what really caught my eye was this:

The CVT is the same unit as found in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , where we also didn't like it much. Here, there's a Sport mode that mimics a seven-speed automatic, but it's not a very good copy. Top-level EX-L trims add standard paddle shifters, but they're entertaining only for as long as it takes you to realize they don't do a good job of mimicking anything other than a dying automatic.

At first, I thought this was kind of a silly feature on its own. I mean why make it worse except to pretend it is something that it is not. But then, this got me to thinking. I drive a Nissan Leaf which is the automotive equivalent of a blank slate. What if you could dial up your favorite car for the drive home. Imagine pulling up a menu that would allow you to select say, a Subaru BRZ or a Porsche 911. No, of course you can't really turn a Leaf into a Subaru or a Porsche. But what if, through the management computer controlling things like applied torque and throttle response and even applying the brakes to create artificial traits, you could get close. I mean hell, you sit at home on your couch pretending to drive cars on a Playstation - what's the difference? And, best of all, through the use of screens, you could actually have the display change to mimic the subject car. Imagine going from the Leaf's 2011 digital dash to the five dials of a 1965 Porsche 911. And finally, since a lot of cars (and the Atlanta Falcons) are now using fake piped in sounds, you could even have it sound like the subject car and respond appropriately to inputs. You could dial up a twin cam or a turbo, an air cooled flat six or even a V8.

I realize this is kind of a flight of fancy and really couldn't be pulled off with any degree of realism unless the underlying platform were already pretty capable. And then there is the issue of one car brand obviously imitating another. I am also not sure why anyone would build (or buy) such a thing. And I am also pretty sure that our friends in the regulatory industry would frown on such mischievousness.

Still, it's fun to think about. I mean, what if instead of saving the manuals, we just fake the manuals.

daender > Joe6pack 03/30/2015 at 21:35

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I think it's more about the technology in the transmission not being advanced/up-to-date enough to behave like a fast-shifting electronically-operated manual transmission...but I'm not sure WHY you would want a transmission designed for smooth, seamless shifts (and keep the engine right at its peak in the powerband) to behave like a automatic which isn't quite as good at keeping shifts uneventful.

Joe6pack > daender 03/30/2015 at 21:48

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Obviously, Honda didn't put a whole lot of effort into it. But the CVT is sort of a transmission blank slate in that it is infinitely variable within a certain range. I don't know if they are the first to do this with a CVT or not. I hadn't heard of anyone doing it before. However, with enough effort and development, it could at least be entertaining.

daender > Joe6pack 03/30/2015 at 21:51

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It's been tested in F1 before but it doesn't sound as pleasing as the engine going through the entire rev range.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Joe6pack 03/30/2015 at 22:19

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I'm gonna say the same thing to you as I do everyone else who thinks like this - if it was possible to make a car cheaper than a Porsche feel like a Porsche, Porsche would build it and make billions.

Your post reeks of a misunderstanding of how a CVT teamed powerplant operates. THere is no way you will copy the response and feel of a traditional boxer 6 and manual trans via flappy paddles on a CVT. You will never even get close. THe only way would be to add a CVT tio a 911. But lets take your nissan into example. Your FF powertrain, inline-4, NA, CVT nissan sentra will NEVER feel ANYTHING CLOSE to anRR powertrain flat 6 911 with a 6-speed manual. The computers for transmissions are nowhere near that powerful. In fact, the com[uters that add artificial "gears" to those CVTs just make them worse as transmissions but more palatable to use as consumers because we're sued to shifting. An idela CVT would never dare have "shitable" points. They ruin everything that is good about a CVT.

Joe6pack > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/30/2015 at 22:47

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I said it was a flight of fancy and probably couldn't happen. I am a mechanical engineer and I own a Porsche 911, so I fully understand the limitations. Just thinking out loud about how close one could get. Honestly, I had no idea anyone had even tried to make a CVT act like a fake flappy paddle gearbox until this afternoon.

And I want to add - don't get caught up on the 911 thing. That may not be the best example given the unique nature of 911s.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Joe6pack 03/30/2015 at 23:17

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I'm the one that shared that last week.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/2015-honda-fit…

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Joe6pack 03/31/2015 at 00:31

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So you're a mechanical engineer who is not versed in how a CVT operates (and how you JUST found out that CVTs can have "fake" ratios is actually a bit odd as they are discussed frequently but I'll chalk it up to young age). Well let's take this from the top - any gears are "simulated" and any deviations form the mathematical formula of how a CVT should be operating reduces efficiency which ends up making the whole idea moot. On top of that, the transmission "mimicking" an actual gearbox ends horribly as the mechanicals are different. THe feel you get as physicla gears mesh into one another and the RPMs climb is different than a CVT gearbox opening up the "gear ratio" by adjusting the band. You will therefore never get what you proposed via CVT.

So to sum it up as a thoght exercise - no thought was given to this thought exercise. It's like you said "What if humans had lasers and walked on the ceiling of all rooms BUT walked on the ground when no ceiling was present?" I have to either dismiss your question as entirely nonsensical or educate you that physics does not work that way. So your entire question has no basis or grounding in reality.

I guess what I'm getting at is I am slightly offended that you go "OH well I know it isn't possible but what if....." and then you go "OH I SAID IT ISNT POSSIBLE!!!!" when people correctly point out that what you asked about won't happen because of very real reasons and that your entire thought exercise is pointless.

Joe6pack > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/31/2015 at 13:09

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First off chief - I am 44 years old and a PE. My degree is in mechanical engineering, but I actually manage civil engineers these days and no, I don't sit around all day reading about the joys of making CVTs act like regular automatics. This Honda was the first I've thought about it. The idea was that an EV is a very benign environment lacking sound and engagement. How could one spice that up even if it were simulated? Perhaps by adding some engagement through the use of a selectable mode allowing shifting and through the use of a simulated engine sound. That was the gist of the whole post, not to get into some long drawn out discussion on whether or not a CVT could be made into a good shiftable automatic. I don't know if it can or not, but if I concede the point could you actually add something constructive.

BTW, I am more than slightly offended.